Had a recent exchange with a Franchise customer on Twitter and he ran off and posted a massive rambling rant about it on Franchise's main forum. As expected, he wouldn't post my reply to him, which shows you just what a dishonourable coward he is (he subsequently has posted part of my reply, only part though. Update: said customer has now blocked me on Twitter and made up a bunch of rambling, crazy nonsense about me. I guess he doesn't like being made to look stupid, but mostly he did that all by himself), so I figured I might as well share it here, for universal amusement. Sorry 'WellDon', you've not done very well at all. And no, you don't get to reply on this blog - try not to get too upset about it...
“Bath insists that using the nickname the Dons is holding us back, Bath goes on to insist that we are sullying the good name of the folks at Kingston as well, but how that is possible is beyond me as some of their customers are incapable of using a toilet,”
A minor incident, that can only have involved 1-2 people. How is that any basis for judging thousands of Wimbledon fans? When you do that, right out of the gate, how do you expect to be taken seriously?
“seem to think they are above the law,”
Evidence for that? Or are we still on one incident and a couple of people?
“and their actions however socially unacceptable are somehow justified, how we can sully that sort of reputation is a mystery.”
You've mentioned one incident and then suggested more without any evidence. The reality is that Wimbledon's fans are certainly no worse than any other clubs' fans, and probably amongst the better reputations around. If you believe anything else you're just making things up in your head. You are not dealing with a hive-mind collective here, Wimbledon fans are thousands upon thousands of individuals, just like any other football club.
“I believe their perception of the situation is born from hope rather than reality, they imposed a boycott on our ground, and everyone excepting a few small-minded individuals ignored it,”
No. The club did nothing. WISA asked other clubs to boycott Selhurst Park, pre-season friendlies with you and asked fans to either boycott or put as little into MK's coffers as possible. That request, such as it was, ended in 2006. No one at all has called for any sort of boycott in the 11 years since then.
“they then in 2012 triumphantly heralded the boycott had been ended, as if it was some sort of concession, but nobody at Stadium MK noticed any difference, as prior to the boycott, away fans still made us one of the best attended venues in the league, it was business as usual. At this point I would venture that the imposed boycott had become so laughable and a point we could mock them on as nobody cared, they lifted the boycott to court a new media love in.”
This is all in your head, as shown by the reality of the brief boycott that actually did occur. How much money MK didn't get between 2003-6 (or since), because of it, is debatable, but without the boycott the 2006 Accord would never have happened, so it served its purpose and was then ended. Also, at this point, you should be realising how completely divorced from reality your whole view of events is, when it's so completely distorted and delusional about the boycott.
“That lifted boycott conveniently gave clearance to 3,030 hypocrites to attend our stadium, but thankfully they witnessed God intervene, as he deftly stuck out his heel and guided the ball into the net.”
It would only be hypocritical to have attended that game if one had called for or supported the boycott. So, it would indeed have been hypocritical if I or Simon Wheeler, for instance, had attended. We didn't. 3,030 people did, which included many fans of other clubs. What proportion of those 3,030 are hypocrites, who knows? Won't be many though. All this is pretty obvious, and yet you again want to label thousands of people. It doesn't work and it doesn't make you or anyone else claiming it look very clever. Embarrassing, frankly.
“I hope you can see from this, they believe we care what they think, when more accurately it is the farthest thing from any of our minds.”
You patently obviously care what other people think of your club and have done from the start. If you really didn't care, you wouldn't keep on moaning about it all the way you do and you wouldn't keep on making up lies about Wimbledon fans.
“They believe that everyone hates us, I don’t think that, but so what if they do, who cares, it’s not affecting my life, I gain pleasure out of it, and I know I’m not alone, knowing when we beat some of these teams, how much it must upset them.”
We don't think everyone hates you. Why you would think that is beyond me. You've previously claimed to me that you don't see any hate or disgust from other fans towards MK, but now here you are acknowledging that some do and that you don't care – swapping one denial for another.
“So, what if we are the AFC perceived hate figures in the game, like I said its largely a myth and is these days only peddled by keyboard warriors, and most that haven’t the vaguest idea what they are talking about.”
Dislike is dislike, whether it's typed or shouted in your face. Because you see one and not the other doesn't mean a lot.
“I have proudly followed the Dons up and down the country, wearing colours and have never been met with anything else than friendly rivalry. Times I have engaged in friendly banter on away days with oppo fans, most are interested to hear about our journey, most love our stadium, but the most common theme is AFC is, and how they don’t support their view, or it’s in the past...just get over it.”
Most people aren't up for an argument, they've come to watch their football team. I'm surprised you expected anything else.
“Like a family argument, things become confused, dates, timelines, the regaling of facts to support your argument, or like a skilful politician avoiding anything that might weaken your stance, that applies to both sides.... yes Bathy, even you.”
No, that's why the blog exists, so that timelines are preserved and the history re-writing that MK has attempted can be refuted. The facts don't change, no matter how many lies Winkelman and others have tried to spin over the years.
“You see even the simplest of things, like labelling our fans as “Franchise Scum”, “Customers” or something similar were born long ago, but apparently, they only call us that in retaliation for being called “KFC Kingston” or the “Pub Team” .... like I said, it’s all about timelines, what came first the chicken or the KFC?”
We had a legitimate grievance in 2002 and names were coined. Franchise FC stuck and Franchise customers is both accurate and, apparently, still provocative. Why you lot call us names is another matter. None of them make much sense, either in construction or reasoning, and it's only Franchise customers that use the terms. I've not met anyone ever who has done anything other than smile patronisingly at your use of supposedly 'derogatory' terms for us.
“So, we move onto what is apparently our biggest lie in all this, why didn’t the supporters of the then Wimbledon purchase the overspending, living beyond its means club, well the explanation is, they were never given the opportunity, is that true, I don’t know,”
You don't know. YOU DON'T KNOW. And there it is. Despite not knowing, by your own admission, you have quite happily thrown that lie around, sold it to others and slagged off every single Wimbledon fan. And you don't know if there's a shred of truth in it. That says everything about you and about the lie – and THAT you DO know.
“but I find it confusing when the bulk of their support had already buggered off down to Kingston to form another club, why they would have wanted to anyway. For one thing, they would have had to tackle the crippling debt before even contemplating a purchase, and that’s without mentioning paying the outstanding wages, which I believe were at least two months unpaid.”
Quite. And yet still you repeat that lie (about a specific, very short time in 2003) as if it somehow justifies anything. Take a long hard look at yourself – repeating a lie you can't back up, about people you don't know and over something you admit it would be illogical to criticise anyone for. Who has the problem here?
“I think the opportunity to purchase for the fans was never likely, simply because it would have cost them too much, and it was much easier to wash your hands of all the debt, ignore the unpaid wages, and the pension rights, walk away scot free, and start all over again, throw AFC on the front of their name and hey presto.......a future and history secured, just no responsibility of the debt.”
We already had AFC Wimbledon from June 2002, when WFC was not for sale or in admin. Even in admin it was not available to us, with the administrators ONLY looking at MK and Winkelman funding the club in admin from the start – that's the “did nothing for 7 weeks” lie.
“But the big bad man in the shape of PW was lurking, and did the unthinkable and saved the club, bugger that’s put the kybosh on their little plan, them hoping the club in its original state would just die a natural death had come undone, the club they walked away from, neglected, boycotted was suddenly stolen, someone call the police, a crime has been committed here.”
Saved what? Is there a Wimbledon FC playing in MK? No. Winkelman approached WFC in 2000, he instigated the move. He gave evidence to the FA Commission that they said was important. You can't paint him as saviour when it's him that instigated the move, it simply doesn't work – it's history re-writing of the highest order. WFC was dead to us on 28th May 2002, surely you understand that? How can you not?
“Can you believe it PW bought a club that could apparently not be bought by their own fans, a scenario I’m sure the three-man commission would have found much more acceptable than a move to MK, but fear not the customers of AFC had a right result, no longer could they be blamed from letting their club die, they had a scapegoat, a hate figure....everyone can now forget they abandoned their club, walked away to let it die, and blame someone else for stealing something they didn’t want.”
The club was stolen from the fans. Easy for any football fan to understand. We're not talking illegal acts here, we're talking 'taking something without permission'. Legally the fans didn't have to give permission, but even Franchise customers by now know what it means to have YOUR football club. So why the outrage from MK when we talk about our club being stolen? We didn't get any recompense or help in recreating it, so why would we describe it any other way than 'stolen'? What's telling is that you get so irate about us using that word, yet then you do the whole 'we don't care' thing… it doesn't add up and we all know why.
“So where are we now, well the hate continues, in the eyes of AFC everyone hates us, but personally I wear the Franchise badge with pride, things will never change, if we ever did give the Dons name up, the fans would still sing “We’re the Dons”,”
No, you wouldn't, and you know it. That would die out within weeks. It's just another reality you're too scared to face.
“AFC will just find something new to bitch about despite what they may tell us,”
What? Please tell me, because there's nothing I can think of, particularly when we already went out and earned the league place again. There is nothing else, so why do you imagine there is? Again, the answer is obvious and it's all to do with you not being able to face the truth.
“as their hate for us will live on long after me and you get the one way ticket to see the man with golden heel, and after all we only exist because of their failings, and we give their existence meaning.”
Now you're in cloud cuckoo land. The meaning of AFC Wimbledon… is a football club for Wimbledon. That's it. That's why it was re-formed, that's why it has prospered, that's why we're going back to Plough Lane. That you have deluded yourself into thinking MK defines anything about us is, quite literally, your problem. Meanwhile, MK still parades around with Wimbledon's nicked-name in the team name… by definition being defined by us. QED.
“So, I’ll leave you with this, AFC feel they have not done any wrong regarding Kingstonian, AFC purchased the ground, gave Kingstonian a rent free 15 years’ existence, sold the ground to Chelsea, gave the K’s a seven-figure sum from that sale, and have made them homeless.... I just wonder if the fan base at Kingstonian look at it with such warmth, and don’t get me started on the dog and banger track that’s going to get demolished to have these people with selective morals a new stadium, apparently they don’t give a damn about them......those caring people at AFC, it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, three sporting organisations all made homeless in the swish of a pen.”
Two aren't our problem and it's plain daft to suggest otherwise. The Ks situation was never and never will be perfect, but we have taken an awful situation for them and given them a home, rent-free, for 15 years, a load of cash, lots of help and received lots of appreciation back. That you equate our treatment of them with what was done to us reflects either on your poor knowledge of the two different situations or on how desperate you are to lie about and smear a football club that has done nothing to harm you.
“Anyway........AFC are going back to the place of their birth, oh hang on, no they’re not no matter whichever way they want to dress it up, as once again they play out this fairy story how hard done by they are, while, yes you guessed it, forgetting anything that shows them in a bad light.”
Yes, we're going back to Plough Lane. It's not the place of our birth, that was the Fox and Grapes pub, but you wouldn't know that because you don't know our history. Our history. We are the bearers of it. We don't have to dress up anything, because we are Wimbledon. If you haven't got that yet, then you haven't been paying attention.
“So, they want all the good stuff, the history etc. but not the legal or moral obligation of the debt they walked away from,”
The debt was never ours to take on. I find it odd that you are fixated on that detail, when it's something that was never a possibility. It is quite bizarre that you try to blame Wimbledon fans for this, rather than the actual culprits like Hammam, Rokke, Gjelsten, Koppel and Winkelman. Quite bizarre.
“so how’s this, you want us to drop the Dons, you drop the Wimbledon tag, and the claim to the history as you are clearly not the legal continuation of Wimbledon FC, and we will Drop the Dons, if you accept and believe you are Wimbledon, pay the debt, then you can stand on the moral high ground you crave........hell will freeze over first.”
We're a stone's throw from Wimbledon and moving to Plough Lane. We are Wimbledon. And you are? Milton Keynes. About time you took that on board, got over your irrational and illogical hatred of Wimbledon fans and stopped trying to be us. We've never claimed 'legal continuation', that was an erroneous claim by Franchise customers (there is no 'legal continuation' of WFC), and we've never sought the moral high ground, we just happen to be stood on it most of the time by running the club the way we do and gaining our league place back the right way.
Thanks for writing your essay, but until you can actually take on board the facts and take off the Winkelman-tinted glasses, you're not going to make any progress. We moved on, a long, long way, through 6 divisions and back to Plough Lane, passing a thousand different hurdles and milestones along the way. Oh boy have we moved on. Time you all did too.
